Tom's persuasiveness vs. Huck's independence
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, Complete by Twain, Mark
Discussion Participants:
Which of the two, independence or persuasiveness serves the boys better in dealing with those around them?
Well, I reckon it's a bit of both, but I'd say persuasiveness is the real trick. Look how I got the boys to whitewash that fence! Independence is fine for dreamin', but you need to talk your way into and out of things.
Well, I reckon he's got a bit of a point there 'bout talking your way outta trouble. But I think bein' able to strike out on your own, like when I lit out from the Widow Douglas, that's what really matters. If you can't stand on your own two feet, ain't no amount of sweet talk gonna save ya.
While it's true that being able to convince people can be ever so useful, as we saw with that fence, I think it’s more important to know yourself. After all, what good is getting your way if you aren't even sure what you want in the first place?
These are all insightful points. However, it sounds like we are speaking of 'independence' and 'persuasiveness' as though they are mutually exclusive, when in fact they may influence one another. Do you think these qualities might intersect or support each other in certain circumstances?
Of course! Look at the cave, for instance. I was independent enough to go exploring, but it took some serious sweet-talking to get Becky to come along. Plus, you gotta be persuasive to get folks to believe your adventures afterwards!
Yeah, I reckon they kinda work together sometimes. If you ain't got no mind of your own, you're just gonna get talked into stuff you don't wanna do. But if you're too stubborn to listen to nobody, you might miss out on some good ideas, or even get yourself into a heap of trouble.
That's an interesting question about our story. What draws you to ask about this particular point?
Indeed, as has been noted, these qualities need not exist in isolation. What might be some moments in the novel where a character's independent spirit actually *enhances* their persuasiveness? Conversely, when might the ability to persuade others actually undermine someone's independence?
Well, when I decided to run off and be a pirate, that was my own idea, see? Then, I used my words to get Joe Harper and Huck to come along. My independence made them think it was an adventure worth having. But maybe... when I convinced Becky to get "engaged," that wasn't so good. She just went along with it 'cause I said so, and it got us both in trouble!
That's a good question. It's kinda like when I decided to light out on my own, away from Widow Douglas. Nobody told me to do that, it was my own idea. And because I was dead-set on it, I reckon I was able to convince Jim to come along with me. I wasn't just talkin' a good game, I was already livin' it. But like he said, sometimes talking folks into stuff ain't the smartest thing to do.
I must concur! When someone is truly resolute, it does make their words seem more convincing. I remember when he was so intent on joining the cadets of temperance. It was *his* own wish, but he got all those boys to join, too, because he made it sound so splendid! Though I suppose that didn't end so well for him.
These are fascinating examples of how individual conviction can amplify influence, and vice versa. Could we perhaps dig a little deeper into the *why*? What is it about seeing someone act according to their own principles that makes their words so compelling?
Hmm, I suppose if a feller is dead set on something, it must be worth doing! When I'm all fired up about being a pirate or finding treasure, folks can see it in my eyes, hear it in my voice. It's like... they know I believe it with all my heart, and that makes 'em want to believe it too.
If a person's willin' to risk somethin' for what they believe, like when I helped Jim even though I knew folks would think I was low-down, well, that shows they ain't just talkin'. It makes you think maybe they're onto somethin' you ain't figured out yet.
Well, I must concur with the boys that showing you truly believe something makes others want to join you. But I also think it's about the *story* it tells! When you're independent, you create a tale worth following, a romance of sorts. Everyone wants to be part of a grand adventure, and your conviction is proof that one is actually happening!
These are all such thoughtful observations. I must concur with Miss Thatcher that there is something quite compelling about an unfolding narrative, a sense of drama and adventure that draws us to others. But perhaps we might also ask, what is it about this inherent "belief" in one's self and in an ideal that can move an audience? What makes this "romance," as Miss Thatcher so aptly named it, so appealing to us?
Well, shucks, it's 'cause everybody wants to believe in something grand! Like being a hero, or finding buried treasure. When someone's got that spark in their eye, makes you wanna believe it too. It's a sight better than just doin' chores and learnin' lessons, that's for sure!
That's right! It's like when Jim was telling me about all that superstition, I didn't believe a word of it, but the way he said it, all serious and believing, well, it made a feller wonder, didn't it? So maybe it's not the thing itself, but how much someone believes in it that makes you wanna listen.
Well, it seems to me that it's all about excitement! Living in this town can be rather dull at times, so when someone comes along with a grand idea, it just makes you want to be a part of it. It’s ever so nice to imagine something more, even if it isn't always real, don't you think?
Indeed, as Miss Thatcher points out, the allure of excitement and adventure cannot be denied, and as young Mr. Finn noted, the sincerity of belief is powerful. But what is it about a grand narrative that resonates so deeply with the human spirit, that compels us to set aside the mundane for the extraordinary, even if only in our imaginations?
Great snakes, that's a mighty fine question! I reckon it's 'cause real life is just a bit too boring sometimes. A feller needs a good story to believe in, something grander than whitewashing fences or going to school. Makes you feel like you're part of something bigger, even if it's just pretend.
I reckon it's 'cause folks wanna be something more than they are. Look at me, stuck with the Widow and tryin' to be "sivilized." A body gets tired of that quick. A good story lets you be a hero, or a pirate, or whatever you want, without havin' to worry 'bout cleanin' your fingernails.
I must concur with the gentlemen. Life in our little town can be dreadfully dull at times. It's so easy to get caught up in trivialities, like who wore the prettiest bonnet to church. It's ever so nice to lose yourself in a grand adventure, if only for a little while. It makes one feel... important.
These are all insightful points. However, it sounds like we are speaking of 'independence' and 'persuasiveness' as though they are mutually exclusive, when in fact they may influence one another. Do you think these qualities might intersect or support each other in certain circumstances?
I reckon I see what you're getting at. When I decided to light out for Jackson's Island, that was about as independent as a fella could be. But then, when Tom and Joe wanted to go back home, it took some serious persuading to keep 'em out there with me. So, my being able to make 'em see things my way kept us all together, even though we was doin' our own thing in the first place.
You know, that's right smart thinkin'. Seems to me like if you're really set on somethin' yourself, folks are more likely to listen to ya. Like, if I didn't truly believe I could live out on the river and be free, nobody else woulda thought it was a good idea either. It's when you're wishy-washy that nobody pays you no mind.
It’s ever so true! I must concur that independence and persuasiveness aren't always at odds. When I was horrid and tossed Tom's and Joe's books, that was my own decision. Yet, it took my persuasion to make them understand that I didn’t mean to hurt their feelings.
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